The Power of Mindfulness in Parenting and Education

In this episode, Dr. Christopher Willard shares practical insights on how mindfulness and emotional regulation can transform classrooms and homes. We explore early signs of dysregulation in children, effective adult strategies, and how modeling emotional awareness fosters resilience.
Key Topics

Early signs of dysregulation in children
Adult self-regulation techniques
Modeling emotional vocabulary and validation
Mindfulness practices for children and adults
The science behind breathing and brain regulation
Building resilience through emotional awareness

Chapters

00:00 Understanding Child Behavior and Emotional Regulation
06:43 The Journey to Mindfulness: Chris Willard's Story
13:04 Recognizing Early Signs of Meltdowns in Children
18:55 Techniques for Adult Self-Regulation
24:50 The Importance of Co-Regulation in Parenting
26:10 Mindful Parenting Techniques
27:50 Understanding Validation in Parenting
29:00 The Science of Emotional Regulation
32:40 Modeling Behavior for Emotional Growth
38:12 Navigating Teen Relationships
42:13 Micro Practices for Teachers
44:53 The Connection Between Regulation and Belonging
Dr. Christopher Willard (Psy. D):

 https://www.drchristopherwillard.com

Key notes | Workshops | Presentations | 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to know. This is where we slow down just enough to look at what's really happening beneath that behavior in our children, in our classrooms or in our homes, and in ourselves. Because let's be honest, these are moments when children are having their meltdown, teenagers are shutting down, or even sometimes snipping back, or a classroom feels out of control. And just in that moment, you're thinking about theory. No, probably you're not even thinking. So you might be saying, What do I do right now? What is happening? Sometimes we react in ways that don't feel aligned with who we truly are or who we want to be or how we want to show up. Not because we don't care, but because we don't fully understand what's happening in that moment. And sometimes because no one has shown us another way, or maybe we it's very difficult because the brain is now in a reactive stage. There is a lot going on. So today's conversation is about changing all of that. I am joined by someone whose work bridges science and real life in a way that actually helps. Dr. Chris Willard is a psychologist, an author, and a faculty member at Harvard Medical School. He has spent years helping children. He actually will tell us about how he found mindfulness. He's been helping educators and families globally under stress, anxiety, and teaches emotional regulation. But what stands out most for me is that his work doesn't just stay in theory. It's practical. It shows real moments in our classroom, in our homes and conversations that we should be having, not complicated, not overwhelming, just tools that actually work. Chris, welcome. I am so glad that you are here with us today.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I am so happy to be here and to be connected and kind of deepening my connection with the positive discipline world. So I'm really looking forward to today's conversation.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Well, thank you very much. So uh one one of the things that our listeners here are from variety of schools, traditional IB Montessori, and there's some school leaders listening, along with, of course, caregivers. And our podcast is quite popular somehow in Germany and US and Canada. And uh of course, there is that reach uh globally. So when we're having this conversation, we'll keep in mind that there are some that are just listening on wherever they get their podcast, and some are watching us on YouTube. So, Chris, I want to uh talk about your journey. How did you get into mindfulness?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, I mean, there's a there's a few different ways I talk about it. Um, one is the, you know, I think that we're all kind of innately mindful when we're born. I think kids are just, you know, it's kind of how they are. And the mindfulness gets unlearned, it gets conditioned out of them in this very sad way. And you can actually kind of see awareness pruning in the brain, you know, in some sense as kids get older. Um, and so it's about kind of preserving the mindfulness and that innate curiosity and that natural um, you know, kind of regulation that kids have, especially when they're regulating with others or in nature or things like that. And and I think a lot about first exposure to mindfulness without it being called mindfulness, was I'm like maybe six or seven years old. I'm at this very sweet nature camp um near my house. And the counselors say we're gonna go into the into the forest and we're gonna walk as silently as we can. Can you walk like a ninja? Right? Can you walk without making a sound? And, you know, it was kind of a fun thing to do. And then years later, I took a mindfulness course and we did mindful walking. And with mindful walking, you kind of just focus on each footstep, and you notice the sensations of the ground, and you just, you know, try not to think about the past or the future. And I actually thought back to being a kid. I was like, that's if you kind of walk as quietly as you can, that's kind of mindful walking. You just focus on each footstep and the texture of the ground. And other things, we'd sit down in the woods and they say we're gonna listen to all the sounds. Can you hear the wind whispering in the trees and the brook babbling in the distance? And thinking we're not gonna hear anything. And then soon enough, oh my gosh, we're, you know, there's all these sounds around us. And it was a little bit like, again, in this mindfulness class in my 20s, like doing mindful listening, like just notice sounds around you, notice near and far and left and right. And I kind of thought back, I was like, that's sort of like that, you know, listen like a deer, you know, that we did, or a rabbit as a kid, or just you know, looking at clouds in the sky with my dad. And he said, you know, if you just pick a cloud and you breathe, you can make the cloud disappear with your mind. And like just these kind of things, and you know, I mean, I'm now a parent, I'm a therapist, I've been a special ed teacher. I kind of think, okay, maybe, maybe those camp counselors are trying to kids to just shut up and be quiet, you know, because that's what parents need and counselors need. But it, but it still like actually really did stick with me. So that by the time I took that mindfulness course and went on a retreat in my early 20s, when by the way, I was at a real low point in terms of dysregulation, in terms of anxiety, depression, kind of had taken a couple of years out of college to try to figure things out, um, struggling with addiction. And and I ended up going on a retreat with TikNut Han and taking some mindfulness courses. And it was just so transformative. And I, and again, it brought me back to being a kid and and just thinking, I really wish I could share this with more people and I want to share this with young people. And I finished my degree, and then I was a teacher, and then I was a therapist, and I feel like I kind of lucked into kind of playful ways of sharing mindfulness, and now I get to meet amazing people like you and the rest of this community and travel, and I work as a therapist, helping people and families and um do consulting and schools, and I just I just love what I do, and all along the way, trying to practice myself, you know, 12 years ago, 11 years ago, having a kid and being like, I don't know about that first book I wrote, you know, but like now I'm learning on the fly, you know, it's that sort of like, you know, I was the perfect parent until I became one. You know, it's like I wrote great parenting books until I became a parent, but like, but but really like, you know, then like really kind of road testing this stuff with my own family and and myself. And um, and it's been an amazing journey, and it and it's been so fun just to share this stuff with so many folks around the world. It's just been a blast, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah, well, thank you for uh sharing that your childhood mindfulness, the mindfulness exercise began for you when you were so young, and you could relate to that even within this time. So, what are some of the early signs before a full meltdown happens in children? So maybe there's something that we can even acknowledge. You have your own children, and you probably now predict when something is about to happen.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Oh, yeah. I think I mean there's a few things. One is I think number one, if we keep ourselves regulated, and I know we hear about co-regulation these days, um, and that's important to touch on. But if we're regulated, we can see what's happening. If we're dysregulated, we we are gonna miss those signs of that slow escalation, of the breath starting to huff and puff, of the voice changing, of the of the face flushing, of the also just think, just remembering, oh, right, it's always at this time in the morning that the meltdown happens on the way to school. It's between breakfast and toothbrushing. And okay, what can I do? What do I remember from yesterday? But when we are dysregulated, we can't remember what worked yesterday. We just go back into yelling, we go back into old patterns, we're not able to be proactive, we're not able to name to tame and validate and do all those wonderful things that we learn in all of our trainings, right? We just end up falling back into our old patterns. So when we then stay regulated, it's like, okay, I can anticipate this, I can name it before it happens. This is the kind of the hard part of the morning. You know, how do you think we're gonna get through this? What will make it fun? What can make it, you know, that kind of thing. And then we can start to anticipate and just by recognizing when it's gonna happen, then we can make a skullful intervention and head that meltdown off of the past in a really different way. And when we're aware of our own stuff, which I mean, maybe I'm talking about mornings because it's a bit of a thing in my house these days, but it's like when I'm aware of my own, you know, unconscious signals that I'm putting off to my daughter of like, oh my gosh, we gotta go to school, like, you know, I can put that on hold, I can pause, I can kind of reset myself, even if I'm not yelling and screaming, I'm still maybe sending some other messages that are not helping the situation, um, but are more subtle. And I can I can work on myself and come at the situation um with a lot more presence, a lot more compassionate presence for that.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

So, what I'm hearing is that if we miss what's happening early and we end up just responding when things are already escalated, we're gonna probably join the band of screaming and everything else that's happening. So, Chris, I want to uh make this real for everyone that's listening. So, because many parents and teachers, we carry guilt around after these types of moments. We think I should have handled this better, I should have done this differently. But in the moment we get caught, we get hooked. What are some ways that adults can um avoid some of the challenges that happen? So, what are ways adults regulate in those fiery moments?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah, the first thing is to know what works for you. So, like maybe breathing is for you, maybe breathing is not for you. Maybe just sort of like noticing five sounds around you. I remember when I was growing up, actually, there's this commercial on TV that was like, if you're ever feeling angry, just count to 10 and you'll feel better. And we'd be like, what do you find time? I'm still mad, right? But it's like, what if I just count it to five sounds? What if I noticed press my feet into the ground and you know, counted to five sensations in my feet? Or if I just say to my child, I, you know, I need a break, I think actually this is really key, is when we know it works for us, then we use it and we narrate ourselves using it, whether it's with them or not. So we narrate it like, this is a tough moment. I'm having trouble kind of thinking clearly, and I don't want to be saying anything. I don't, I'm gonna take a moment to press my feet into the ground. I'm gonna just do one big reset breath or silence sigh. And we're kind of modeling it, inviting them into it without saying, now do your breath, right? Because that's just gonna backfire, right? And so then we're modeling it and modeling it maybe in a conflict, but maybe also just in another moment, like, you know, oh, I've had a really tough day at work. You know, my boss was frustrated and I feel like I made a mistake, and I just had to take a few moments to myself to breathe, to, you know, take a few mindful bites of my ice cream. I don't know if I'm eating ice cream for lunch, I don't know what it is, right? But whatever it might be, a few mindful sips of my coffee, right? That kind of helped me to reset and that helped me, you know, to not kind of take that stuff home with me. And then also using it, of course, in those interactions with our kids, both the hot ones that are like a big argument, but also whether it's as a therapist in my office where I'm sitting right now, and there's a box of games behind me, you know, Monopoly Uno, whatever. And like when I'm playing with a whether it's a client or with my own kids, and I'm like, I was playing actually back in with my son today, and he just kept getting doubles and he kept like, you know, stomping me, like zapping me and knocking me out. And I was just like, okay, Leo, I just gotta take a couple breaths. This is really, really frustrating. Okay, what can I do? But then I'm modeling it, right? And then I see him model it. Or I see my client watch me, you know, playing Uno and they they you know put a drop four or draw four on me or something. And I, okay, I got this. That's super annoying, but it was your card, okay, that's fair. You know, I'm just gonna take a breath, calm myself down, take a look at what I can do here. And then we're modeling it, right? Even if it's with little kids, a little bit ostentatiously, right? And then they kind of, you know, might start to do it a little bit. And I see my own kids doing it and I see my clients start to do that. And it's pretty cool how they learn not just from being told, but they learn from the modeling. Um, and that that and and the explaining why we're doing it, even sometimes, um, because they're looking for a way they like, oh, grown-ups get upset too, grown-ups get frustrated too. Yeah, and this is what we do to manage it because we don't have, well, some of us don't have the tantrums the kids do. I don't, I don't know, it depends on who you are. But um, yeah, yeah. So that's some of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Yeah. So it's adults, mindfulness, it's not our first example, like first go-to, unless we've learned it and we've practiced it in schools. You know, we're going to be in the summer, and that's when this podcast will be listened to. And hopefully this will help parents and caregivers in the fall when the school begins in the US and uh, you know, other times around the world. So, what are some of the practices we can engage in during the summer break with our children and get this routine going that would be helpful when the school year begins? Because in the summer we have a little bit of flexibility. Come school time, we are pack your bags, get your lunch, did you do your homework, and we get into those molds.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Oh, yeah. Summer is such a great opportunity. And I think one thing, it depends on your kids, you know, your campers or whoever it is you're working with, but like you can either say, let's do mindfulness, or you can say, you know, like, you know, we're out for a walk, and like, oh, do you notice to like, you know, it's like, do you ever notice it's like slightly different air temperature once we like, you know, like walk into the woods or into the field? Or, you know, do you notice that there's different bird sounds in the morning than there are at night, or different smells on different streets because like there's a different tree that's blossoming. I've been loving that in the spring, just trying to notice the different um, you know, kind of smells on different streets because there's literally different flowers we can take time to smell. It's it's really like, or you can say let's take a mindful walk, but it can also be like let's just kind of do a bit more noticing. It doesn't have to be, let's have a mindful meal and take a half an hour to eat a raisin. And if you want to do that, like I think that's a phenomenal thing to do if you can get your kid to do that. But it's also like, let's just talk a little bit about like where did this food come from? Right? You know, like, oh, this, you know, the the this meal, like where did the recipe come from? You know, what culture did it come from? Did it come, you know, is it handed down in the family? Where did the food come from? Did it come from close by? Did it come from, you know, far away, right? What are the different colors? Can you notice one taste, one one texture, one sound, one smell, right? As you're as you're as you're chewing it, right? So it can just be like these little, I call them kind of like mindful cues, like rather than like a mindful practice, which can be a hard sell sometimes. Um, so I think that's also helpful to remember. I've also like someone's been asking me about kind of putting on mindful, mindfulness groups. Actually, there's a group that I work with in Turkey. We're just talking about Turkey before we started. Um, but like it's hard to kind of sell a mindfulness group at a school, but if you want to do, but like doing like an arts and mindfulness group, or doing a sports performance and mindfulness group, or doing a music and mindfulness group, or a writing and mindfulness group is actually like something that kids might actually latch onto because they love sports or they love writing or they love music or they love art. And so that's actually, I think, the better way in than saying we're gonna do a mindfulness group or a mindfulness course or mindfulness time at summer camp or something like that. Um, but it's kind of saying, you know, calling an experiment like that, because it's kind of grabbing kids with what their interests maybe already are sometimes. So that's something to think about too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah. So why do simple tools like this have the strongest impact? What's happening for the youth?

SPEAKER_00 16:11

It is so cool, I think what's happening. I think number one, it's empowering to give kids something that like works. Like you slow your breath down, you know, to five or six breaths in a minute, you know, breathe into seven, breathe out to eleven, or a hot chocolate breath, breathe in, smelling, breath, blowout, cooling off. I'm kind of rushing here, but you don't want to be rushing and you're very unrushed, which I love. Um, but that when we when we do this, right, you can pretty quickly feel a little bit different. Or when you say, let's just name five sounds that we can hear. Right? I hear the traffic outside, I hear my clock ticking, I hear the white noise machine because I'm in my office. I hear a bird. Right? What happens actually is what we're kind of doing is we're activating the prefrontal cortex, we're activating curiosity in the brain. And when curiosity is activated, my friend Jeb Brewer proved this. When you activate curiosity in the brain or the prefrontal cortex, the amygdala, the limbic system, the kind of, you know, that whole part of the brain, the fight or flight, big, big feelings part of the brain, that actually like, um, you know, that that starts to shut back down as the blood then flows into the prefrontal cortex where we think things through and solve complex problems and regulate our emotions. It flows into the outer cortices, the insular cortices. We have our social intelligence, emotional intelligence, perspective taking. Okay, my parents aren't trying to ruin my life. My teacher doesn't hate me, right? That kind of thing. Oh, now I can see a bit more clearly. I can activate trust. So all these things start to shift, as well as, you know, just breathing. I mean, breathing, it's like, you know, you regulate your breath, you regulate your body, you're regulating your nervous system, and you're regulating your brain. And then you really are regulating your attention, your impulses, um, all of that that we're we're trying to do, your emotions, right? So these things are really powerful, even in just a small way. I think we want to not overpromise, like this is an off switch, right? But it's like, you know, all these things help a little bit, you know, a few breaths helps maybe 10%, 30%, you know, maybe uh, you know, a couple other things, taking a walk, splashing water down your face, you know, another 10%, maybe putting it into words, another little bit, right? Nothing is a magic bullet here, but these all help get a child back into that window of tolerance, into that green zone, into that regulated zone where they're able to respond, not react. And of course, get us into that state too, maybe, maybe more importantly than the child. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah. So here is consistency more important or technique? How does this work?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

I think consistency, I think finding whether it's a classroom or a family or a therapist, as a therapist, it's like I open and close the session with a little kind of mindful grounding practice, you know, in a classroom. Maybe it's with little kids, it's in circle time doing, you know, three butterfly breaths, right? Breathe in, breathe out, or a few alligator breaths or ninja breaths or something like that, right? As kids are older, you know, maybe into middle school and high school, you know, okay, I'm gonna be handing out, you know, the test or the homework. Well, I'm doing that. Just feel your feet on the ground. Is the ground harder soft, warm or cool, or your feet dry or damp? Right? Or okay, as part of um, you know, you know, every few questions on the test. Maybe just lean back, put your your hands behind your head. It's actually very hard to not breathe deeply and slowly. You put your hands behind your head and lean back like this, just every two or three questions on the exam in the classroom. So it's just kind of integrated into what we're doing in school at home. Maybe it's a maybe it's a longer, you know, guided imagery before bed or a gratitude practice around the dinner table before dinner. Um, you know, there's other, or like, let's do my son is a soccer player. He I I didn't, I was with my daughter who does not want to go to soccer anymore. She is on strike. Um, so my wife and my son went to the soccer game, his soccer game last weekend. And I was like, you know, is he nervous? Because he gets pretty nervous. And she was like, he just meditated the whole time in the car. I was like, oh my God, like that is awesome. And by the way, that is like, this has not really happened before. Like, this is an epic breakthrough for me. But like that kind of thing that he then, and he'll ask, usually before a game, can we do a five or 10 minute meditation to help me calm down? Or I'll see him on the field and I'll be like, give him that breeze signal if I see him getting a little bit into his head a little bit. Um, and at some point, you know, there'll be maybe it'll be his coach who tells him that my daughter's music teacher who reminds her of these things, right? It might, you know, might be too embarrassing for dad to be suggesting it. But that's why it's really helpful to have various other people in the school, in the sports, in the arts, right, who have um some training in this or some interest in this where they can share it, they can reinforce it, especially come the teenage years when the kids are a little bit eye roll y about doing it with us as parents, perhaps. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Yeah. So you showed a few different techniques, you done the elevate uh alligator breathing. So it seems like, and I could be right or wrong, but are you trying to get the air into different parts of the lungs? And does it have different effects on our brain and learning or regulation?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

So I'm not like a total breath work expert, but I I've read a few books about breathing and I really enjoyed James. James Nester wrote a book called Breath or Breathe. It's very good. Some of the things I learned that stuck with me are you can see my daughter's tattoo that she gave me yesterday. Um are um when we when we slow our breath down to about five or six breaths in a minute, that's really what kind of I like to say it hits the reset button on the nervous system. So I often the language I often use with kids is let's let's take a reset breath. You're frustrated with your math, I'm frustrated with your math, let's both take a reset button. We have different nerve endings in the top of our lungs than the bottom. So if we breathe deeply and slowly, it hits that reset button and resets your nervous system in your brain. So it kind of clears it out so that you can think and see a little bit more clearly again. When you breathe short and shallow, right? It amps you up. It puts you into fight or flight, which is great if you want to go run a road race, but it's not great if you're trying to take an exam or something like that. So, you know, some of these things really do make a difference. The number of breaths, um, there's some evidence breathing in through your nose, out through your mouth. Hot chocolate breath is good for that, right? Breathe and smelling, blowout cooling off, that that also has a little bit more of an effect. Um, but all of the visualizations around it, whether it's hot chocolate or butterfly or you know, whatever it is, for little kids, that just helps them to focus, right? Because I think they, if you just say breathe or take some deep breaths, they go, okay, do some deep and slow breaths, not just deep breaths. And here's how to do it. Like you're, you know, smelling the hot chocolate, like you're blowing to cool it off, that that really, which everyone can relate to, right? I remember even my two-year-old daughter just gently blowing on her oatmeal when she was like two, right? Can kind of get that rhythm down um and start to learn that. And that really does, again, like hit that reset button in those nerve endings in the bottom of our lungs, um, that really helps to um yeah, kind of create the whole, the whole reset um of the nervous system and regulation. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah, lovely. I know we use this in yoga, and we as adults go to yoga classes and breath work or meditation to achieve this peaceful moment. And for our children, um, it's something that uh we we're now beginning to become aware of it. So let's let's take an example. Uh, I wrote down, let's say if a child is upset, maybe crying, maybe yelling, and it's escalating. What can adults do within that first 30 seconds?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

The first thing I think that we really want to do is regulate ourselves. Um, because you know, I some people know like Dan Siegel's model of the brain, right? And talks about the kind of flip your lid. And I kind of take that as like, well, let's think about co-regulation as two brains, right? If one lid is flipped, right, and the other brain is calm, they can help regulate that brain. But if both lids are flipped, it's like all bets are off, right? So what we need to do first is regulate ourselves, maybe narrate regulating ourselves, right? And then what happens is is then for us in some ways the solution arises in terms of what the best intervention is. Just like in like invalidation and sort of like um, you know, how to talk so kids will listen to listen so kids will talk. It's like you validate what happens actually when you validate the emotion under a child is they feel seen, they calm down, the prefrontal cortex comes back online. It's able to then think about what I could do differently. And often we don't even have when we validate a child, we don't even have to tell them, you know, do this or do that. They come up with a solution on their own because their brain is working. So actually, when we practice self-compassion, for example, or if we practice mindfulness or another self-regulation practice, we have regulated and validated ourselves. And even sometimes it's really helpful to say, this is a really hard moment for me. It's a really hard moment for both of us. Say that internally, right, to not kind of set off your kid. But when we do that, we've self-validated and we are now able to come up with, okay, you know what? I think maybe they're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. I think maybe they need just a little bit of a break. I think I need to take a step back and stop leaning into their face. I think I need to adjust my body language. I think I need to gently suggest that we both sit down to calm down. I think I need to, right, and and all of the wonderful skills that we've learned come back into our brain, and we can use a beautiful, positive discipline, Jane Nelson. We can use a mindfulness, we can use a, you know, any of the myriad of techniques that are out there for helping a child to regulate. And maybe just a distraction technique, right? Who knows? But those, those are we're we're able to think so much more clearly, and then actually we're able to use those skills that we that we've learned and that we've hopefully practiced too. So that's number one. But then maybe it does go into not do some hot chocolate breaths, right? But goes into I'm gonna take a few breaths. I'm gonna just press my feet into the ground for a moment. Oh, can you feel that cold air? Or do you want to step outside with me and just take a breath of fresh air? Do you want to hug right now? Right. That that that then, that those kind of co-regulation or mindfulness techniques can actually be um really helpful to do together. We both ended up here, we both are responsible for for de-escalating the situation too.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

So some parents listening or teachers listening, we've learned everything from our caregivers of the past. And when we're upset, those words pop out of our mouth faster. Oh my gosh. So, what are some of the ways? What is encouragement? And you said validation. What would validation sound like?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

What's mindful parenting? Like, how do you parent from being in the present moment? And I was like, okay, that is kind of a tough question. I had to give it some thought for a few weeks. And I came up with it, and it's like, how do we parent from what's happening in the present without either repeating the mistakes of our parents, right? And having that voice just come right through us. And it's like, oh wow, where did my dad or my mom come from? Like through that voice, right? But also not just mindlessly rebelling against our parents. That mindful parenting is not mindlessly repeating, it's not mindlessly rebelling from the caregiving that we got. It's like, okay, what can I take in this moment from what my caregivers did well? What did they not do well? What have I learned since then in this moment for me? What's going to work for me? What's going to work for my child? Okay, I'm probably a little bit closer to what is needed in this interaction for regulation. So I just kind of wanted to go back to that. And then your next question was What does validation sound like? Okay, validation. Right. So, you know, validation is not a magic bullet, but it's pretty good. And validation is when we try to explore or name what the feeling is that's underneath the frustration. Right. The, you know, my daughter, it's often, she is not super resistant about going to school in the morning. She just has a really hard time waking up. So it is hard for her to wake up in the morning, you know. And so just like, sounds like you're feeling really tired today. It's been really hard to wake up today, huh? Um, you're just really sleepy, right? That that's going to be better than, you know, what's the matter with you? We're in a hurry. We got to go. Right. Or if she is upset about something and not wanting to do X, Y, Z, you know, saying, you know, it sounds like it's it's naming the emotion that's under the behavior or trying to guess at the emotion under the behavior. Um, you know, sounds like you're feeling really worried about, you know, maybe with my son, sounds like you're feeling really worried about refereeing this weekend because I know you had that bad experience a few weeks ago, but I know that you can handle it. Um, so I'm naming it before he says, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do refing anymore, right? Sounds like you're maybe feeling worried about it because of the past experience. And I wish that hadn't hadn't happened. I also love the other way to validate is not just to try to try to name the emotion underneath it, but to make the wish. I wish refing was easy. I wish you know that parent didn't yell at you um, you know, a while back, because that really made you not want to go back to reffing anymore. Um, so that that what that does actually is it is it is it validating the emotion. Um, it actually activates the prefrontal cortex in the brain, the emotion regulation part of the brain. And that again then pulls the blood out of the amygdala, the limbic region, the big feelings region of the brain, and into the prefrontal cortex and into the insular cortices. So the famous experiment about this is they put some people, you know, I don't know, a bunch of grad students or something into an MRI machine and they show them different emotional scenes. And what would happen was they'd see someone that was scared and they would see the amygdala flare up and the blood flow into that part of the brain, or someone that was angry and they'd see the amygdala flare up and the blood flow into that part of the brain. And then they said, okay, we're going to show you these slides of emotions. When you see the emotion, just name the emotion. And they'd see the angry scene, they'd say anger. And they'd see the sad scene and they'd say sad. And what would happen was as soon as they did that, they name it, and immediately the blood would actually start to flow out of the limbic system, out of the big um emotion part of the brain and into the rest of the brain. So it basically became regulated. So this is why we kind of in mindfulness we say name it to tame it, name our own emotions to tame them. So when we're able to name for ourselves, I'm really getting frustrated with my daughter not going to do school right now, right? And we name that to ourselves, right? Maybe not out loud, right? Then we're able to name with her, you know, it sounds like you're feeling really frustrated about, you know, how sleepy you are, how hungry you are right now, or worried about school. And their prefrontal cortex activates and their limbic system starts to quiet down. So this is why we say to kids, use your words. It's why, you know, I sit in this chair, the couch over there, and the client sits in my chair, and I say, Ah, sounds like you're feeling really angry with your father these days, or feeling really disappointed in your, you know, work situation right now. Right. When I'm able to name that for somebody, which only happens if I'm regulated, right? Then their prefrontal cortex activates, their limbic system quiets down. They're feeling the feeling, but the feeling is not in the driver's seat, right? We have this balance of, you know, in what we call dialectical behavioral therapy. We call this the rational mind and the emotion mind together. We have that wise mind where the two of these are working together. The emotions aren't controlling us, they're giving us information. Total rationality isn't winning the day either, right? We're somewhere in between, kind of taking in all kinds of input to then make another better decision.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

So uh, Chris, you mentioned, you know, modeling or doing this mimicking behavior. Why is that important? Because for those who are raised in certain culture, when the parent says get your back together, you get your back together and it creates that power struggle that I keep talking about. But if you have been the one that's always complied to your parents and now you have a child, why is this modeling? What is this modeling thing and what does it do for one another?

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Yeah, kids learn through, they learn through watching, right? And they learn through watching caregivers and other important detachment figures. Um, and so the more we can actually model and name what we're going through, when we name our emotions, they then learn how to name their emotions. When they name their emotions, they can regulate their emotions. Actually, a direct correlation between number of emotional vocabulary words someone has and actually self-regulation later in life. So when we actually name our emotions and say, hey guys, I'm feeling, you know, I mean, it can be overwhelming for kids if we say I'm feeling anxious and anxiety is a little bit um of a contagious emotion. I've actually been feeling pretty anxious lately and feeling like I'm not as present as I want to be for my kids, but trying to remember to say, hey guys, I'm a little bit out of it, I'm feeling a little bit anxious out of about a work situation. I will be okay, and here's what I'm doing to manage it. But sometimes it's just kind of being a little bit distracting, right? That actually shows them what anxiety is, that they can survive it. Maybe I tell them I'm gonna meditate or I'm gonna take a shower or I'm going to, you know, try to eat, even though I have a nervous stomach, that those are the ways I can cope with anxiety. Um, and so then anxiety is not so scary for them. And they ask me about it in a really open way, right? I heard my son just recently say to a friend who was over maybe six months ago. She was like talking about having a panic attack. And he's like, Oh yeah, I have panic attacks too. Like there's just like but it was like it just totally normalized it. So there wasn't the shame or the stigma around it. There also wasn't some weird like over-identification with it. But he was like, Yeah, just like in nice cube. I find it really helpful. Um, and he's been great. You know, he had some panic attack a couple of years ago and he found some strategies and they really worked for him. And he was like able to then help this friend who was over um, you know, our age. Um, so it was just really kind of extraordinary, then sort of watching the modeling and the teaching kind of from person to person in the family, and even sometimes outside of the family, um, in these really uh uh beautiful ways. But I think also modeling, you know, I try sometimes either my son's the first one downstairs in the morning or I am. Um I try to not be like just on my phone first thing in the morning. I try to be just drinking my coffee when the kids come down, right? I'll invite them to meditate for a few minutes with me or something like that. So that I'm modeling, you know, not just healthy screen use, but I'm modeling, you know, maybe some healthy self-care um with, you know, a brief meditation or reading a book instead of, you know, watching a video, right? That kind of thing, I think. Then in all these ways we can model different sorts of healthy um coping skills for our kids, as well as modeling, yeah, sometimes things get hard, and here's how we deal with it. Um, or here's how I deal with it. Because kids need to know. There's another study I really love actually about kind of making mistakes. It it's it's with teachers, but it probably applies to to parents too. Um, but they had these teachers like deliberately make a mistake on the board, like spell the spell something wrong or do a math problem wrong, and then they'd wait. And of course, inevitably some kid would be like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, you spelled that wrong. You did that math wrong. And the teacher would just say, like, oh, whoops, uh, yeah, uh, we all make mistakes, right? No big deal. That's how we learn. Thank you for thank you for pointing that out to me. That's how that's how I'm gonna learn how to spell it. And when the teacher did that, actually, those kids were then like taking more risks, putting their hands up more often, you know, saying the answer even if they weren't sure that they were right, um, working harder and longer than the kids who were um, you know, in other classes. So we don't want to show that we're so imperfect that we're fragile or we're not a good enough caregiver or that we don't know math, right? Or whatever it is, right? But we we it it is actually really helpful for kids to see vulnerability paired with um how we manage that vulnerability. Like that is one of the most powerful ways for kids to grow and become more resilient. Same with conflict. I I grew up with no conflict in my home. Like, or my parents must have fought, but I never saw it, right? And so by the time I had friends and had a conflict, it was terrifying. I had a you know, first few girlfriends, conflict, absolutely terrifying. This is the end, right? We had a fight because I didn't know that you could have a conflict and have it be a healthy conflict and then forgive each other and get over it and move on. And so it's important to even model like healthy conflict for kids. Like if I, you know, I'm a little snippy with my wife, you know, why try to say I'm sorry in front of the kids. Like, you know, I mean, and and vice versa, right? That we, you know, that that conflict is okay, tough moments are okay. Um, what we want to show kids is what the repair is with the other person, what the repair is or the skill is that we use with ourselves if we're anxious or we're sad or we're frustrated, we're confused. And then they really like feel, you know, feelings are okay, conflict is okay, I can manage this. Um, and that's like just the the one of the biggest lessons we can give them around resilience um in terms of emotions not being so scary. And and that becomes really important too.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

What a beautiful setup to normalizing all the emotions we are going to feel as humans. And right, absolutely, it's how to deal with it and it comes with us. So thank you for that. Uh, one of the things that now we're going to look at is often parents feel lost because their younger children, we know how to guide the behaviors and these will happen. However, with teens, sometimes we're growing into this loving child, and now there is distance, there is resistance, there is you know, interpretations that they have that are you're surprised that that they have a different perspective. So, how do we stay connected without pushing them further away?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I think what we don't want to do is give up. Right. I think that's I remember someone telling my parents when I was having a hard time. The number one role of parenting is don't give up. But I think it's like, you know, asking that question of how is your day at school, right? Even if they just like run upstairs and slam the door. Um, because it's important that they know that we still care. And it's also important because there's this little thing about our brains, for example, whereas you if you ask someone a question, they will, even if they don't answer you out loud, they can't not answer that question in their own head. So they'll be running up the stairs thinking, How was my day? I'm not gonna tell mom or dad, but they're thinking, how was my day? Right. And they're kind of unconsciously thinking, you know, mom cares, dad cares, my parent cares, my caregiver cares. Right. And so it is important to keep showing up in those ways, um, with asking how they're doing, with um, you know, setting limits, even if they bust through them, um, all these kinds of things with staying connected, with having one-on-one time, like we try to, you know, when the kids are little, like, okay, I'm gonna have some dedicated, you know, one-on-one time to try to keep that up when they're teens um in different ways. It looks different, you know, certainly at that age. Um, and I think also when we have set up important values when they are young, when they are under, you know, when they're when they're when they're you know younger than teenagers, right? They go through this time. I don't know if it's global or if it's in the West or if it's in the US more, but there is a sort of time of rebellion of like, who am I outside of my family? Let me push some boundaries, right? Kind of see what else is out there in the wider world in terms of who I want to be. That's developmentally important. And and then they come back settled into the values is what I see again and again that we instill in them at a young age, whether it's spiritual values, you know, or whether it's just sort of like, you know, the things that we've done as a family in terms of generosity or kindness or um other kinds of things or openness about feelings or whatever it might be. Um, but they need to go through a time of experimentation. Um, and so that that then we have to trust that a little bit. That's also where it's great. Like, look, I'm a therapist, I you know, think therapy is great. People come to me all the time, though, and I'm like, you know, your kid's a teenager, they're not super talkative. Like, I can meet with your kid, but like if they have an awesome soccer coach, that's great. Like, cultivate that relationship. If they've got a great um, you know, drama teacher, if they've got, you know, cool, you know, I don't know, some other, you know, adult, cousin, uncle, aunt, you know, something like that. What's important is that they have an adult or two who's kind of got an eye on them. Not not in not instead of you, but that there's also someone outside of the family who's got eyes on them and who they have a kind of independent relationship with, um, because that's really important for their development at that stage too. And it can kind of give you some intel, or you can say, oh, you know, coach so and so just had a breakup, you know, maybe, you know, give them a pat on the back this week or, you know, that kind of thing. Um, because again, therapy is great. It's not for everybody. What's really important is that uh there's some kind of cool adult in a kid's life where they they feel safe with who's outside of the family.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Lovely. Let's look at teachers. They often don't have space to do long interventions. So, what are some micro practices teachers can use in real time without losing the flow of their classrooms?

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Absolutely. One thing I like is um encouraging teachers, you can get those little animated gifts that are like the breathing in, breathing out. You know, you can kind of find those online and like put those into your PowerPoint slides. And so like everyone in the class is kind of unconsciously breathing in and breathing out together and regulating their breath together without even necessarily noticing or realizing that that's happening. Um, other things, I think, like what are the times? You know, as I mentioned, sort of like while you're passing out exams, guys, is a great time just to like lean back, take a few breaths. Um, you know, finding those other little moments. Okay, we're gonna be doing book reports today, we're gonna be doing speech debate, right? Most kids, most adults actually hate public speaking. I happen to be a weirdo who loves public speaking, although I didn't used to. Um, but you know, that that's like, okay, you're feeling nervous about public speaking. Here's some breath work, here's some fill your feet exercises, here's some ways to regulate yourself. Um it's kind of built into that lesson that it's not just who can write the most persuasive speech, but who can stay regulated and calm through that speech. Right. Um sheets uh take one minute and teach them some regulation skills for the test. Maybe it's just breathe into seven, breathe out to eleven. Maybe it's just let out a long silence high um every couple questions on the exam. Um Because that will be a better return on investment than like one more minute of like cramming flashcards or something like that, is actually giving them one minute of self-regulation skills. And the return on investment that you will get, like the brain will be open. The memories will be retained. The memories will be retrieved when it is time, right? The the panic will be way less likely to set in that shuts down the quality of academic performance. And so when we teach those skills integrated into speaking, music, art, and just plain old academics, right? Then I think you know, we're actually going to see performance get better. And kids are going to think, oh, that's a good skill. I can maybe I can use that on my driver's test. Maybe I can use that when I'm asking someone to the prom. Maybe I can use that in my college interview too. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Yeah. In Edelarian Psychology, we talk about belonging and significance. How does emotional regulation connect to children's sense of belonging, contribution, confidence, all those things?

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Absolutely. I mean, I think so many kids who are dysregulated, they end up. I mean, I learned recently, I can't remember what the exact number is, but like a kid with ADHD gets 50,000 more pieces of negative feedback than a neurotypical child. So no one likes dysregulation, right? Least of all the kid who's feeling dysregulated. Um, but there's two things that are amazing that happen. One is that when we regulate, we connect. And the other is that when we connect, we regulate, right? So we we co-regulate in in in in both directions, right? If we can connect with someone while they're dysregulated, that actually regulates them. And then they can build on that new attachments, new connections, new relationships that also regulate them, whether that's the therapist in the school, the kid sitting next to them, the teammate, you know, the parent, caregiver, babysitter, right? So they can start to build from that kind of initial regulating attachment, you know, kind of secure attachment adult out to other people. And just that relationship is regulating, right? And there's all kinds of research too on cultivating empathy, cultivating compassion and self-compassion, the ways these regulate also and connect. Um, but but our emotions are incredibly contagious. And so the more I have a friend that likes to say, you know, if you can be calm and present, you can be a calming presence, right? And so as we do that as adults, as the kids learn how to do that for each other, right, it can be just such a beautiful thing that radiates out and strengthens connection. Because, I mean, obviously, dysregulation, it pushes people away, unfortunately. And that's so hard on parents who have dysregulated kids and getting play dates, and then they feel ostracized by the parent group, right? All these kind of levels. But actually, when when kids are able to regulate um what actually happens, and also when we're dysregulated, our uh our our kind of social intelligence shuts off and our um trust circuits shut off. So we don't actually make those connections when we are and cortisol actually blocks um oxytocin is the connection, attachment, love hormone, relationship hormone. And so when we're stressed, we actually have trouble connecting. I mean, it makes sense, of course, right? But when we're regulated, we actually can have these beautiful, you know, helpful, compassionate, healing relationships, regulating relationships with others through oxytocin and some other neurohormones. So um learning how to regulate then, you know, creates these stronger relationships that in turn regulate us. So it can be a downward spikal, spiral, sadly, but it can also be this beautiful upward spiral in terms of regulation, co-regulation relationships and and more. And we know too, I heard a wonderful speaker a couple months ago um talking about studying relationships in kids, particularly in boys, but in kids in general, but finding like the best predictor of mental health is social health. Really good social health is the best predictor of mental health too. So helping our kiddos make those connections is so important.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Absolutely. And Siddhartha Daswani, a student, um, when he was 17, was on a podcast and spoke about being raised without technology and um how he uses meditation and mindfulness and religious practices to fuel his uh education and everything that purpose. So from this conversation, Chris, I am taking away that we don't need to be perfect. We absolutely not get it right every time. Please don't try. And um but when we begin to understand what's happening underneath the behavior, right? That pause we pause differently, we will repeat differently, we will connect differently. And even in the middle of those hard moments, we can regulate like a heartbeat. Practice and with self-compassion. Chris, thank you, not just for the science, but for making something we can actually use. And before we go in the show notes, you will find all the books by Chris, along with the work that he does. So you have more information. Thank you again for joining now. And hopefully we will talk to Chris on Jagged Edge, where we can create mindful workplaces where we can feel a sense of security, safety, and perform performance that comes from self regulated beings.